|Clan XX Monarch's Meeting
Aramithris (Monarch BL), Verana (Consort BL), Vinall (PM BL), Kurse (Champion BL), Raphael (Captain of Guards BL), Bone (Monarch EH), Stormie (Consort EH), Eclipse (Acting PM EH), Brennan (Champion EH), Diego (Monarch CK), Euric (Monarch GP), Jacobi (Consort GP), Nikita (PM GP), Belgarion (Monarch IM), Michael (BOD Pres IM), Randall (Acting Monarch DS), Denavis (PM DS), Feral (BOD Pres DS), Amren (Monarch GV), Bjorn (Monarch NW), Phocion (At the invitation of the COM)
The voting representatives from each kingdom were:
BL: King Aramithris
EH: King Bone
CK: King Diego
IM: Emperor Belgarion
GP: King Euric
DS: Prince Randall, representing King Phywren
GV: King Amren
NW: King Bjorn
King Aramithris of the Burning Lands chaired the meeting.
Aramithris began the meeting and said the 6.1 meeting was held earlier. He stated that 6.1 is in progress and copies would be given to the kingdoms for testing.
He then said we'd discuss Rising Winds and vote on them and that the BL BOD would vote tomorrow.
Bjorn said Rising Winds wouldn't assume Kingdom powers until their next event.
Aramithris said this gathering of monarchs is informal and we're only here to vote on Rising Winds.
We went around the circle and introduced ourselves.
Aramithris said the BOD presidents were invited to the meeting, and he considered them to be observers only. Michael said he would agree to whatever the monarchs wanted. Aramithris said only the three who can make law should be able to speak.
Aramithris began a discussion of Rising Winds. Belgarion asked for a vote. Euric asked for records on the Rising Winds.
Bjorn and Verana both said that the Rising Winds corpora is acceptable regarding knighthood.
Diego asked for compilations of Rising Winds sign-ins.
Aramithris said that average attendance throughout the last eleven major Rising Winds events was 75.8. Aramithris then left the meeting briefly.
Michael asked about rules concerning noble titles, which was missing from the Rising Winds corpora. Verana explained that Rising Winds presented a Kingdom corpora. Bjorn said it was merely an oversight and explained that the corpora contained ways to fix it.
Aramithris returned with Rising Winds sign-in sheets. Aramithris also showed Althing results and said a hypothetical 108 to 13 vote seemed illegitimate while the Rising Winds Althing results of 28 to 10 or so seemed legitimate.
Bjorn and Diego asked about how Rising Winds Allthings rules changes worked, and asked why a quorum wasn't needed.
Aramithris asked if other kingdoms had similar rules regarding quorums. The consensus was yes, or that their system worked despite a lack of a quorum.
Aramithris and Eclipse said that most issues with the Corpora were mere fine-tuning problems, and Aramithris said the BLBOD would probably vote yes on Rising Winds.
Aramithris said the Rising Winds corpora is a hodgepodge from different corporas.
Amren asked when the next Rising Winds event would be, and was told it would be next September.
Bjorn said the Rising Winds corpora seemed good.
Diego asked how many shires Rising Winds had, and Vinall looked it up, saying six.
Aramithris asked when Rising Winds wanted to become a kingdom. Bone said they wanted to become a kingdom at Clan. Bjorn asked for a vote of when the monarchs thought it should be. Bjorn said the Rising Winds wanted to become a kingdom at their next event. Kurse fetched Duke Hobbit to answer, and Hobbit said he preferred Clan and that the Rising Winds preferred Clan. Bjorn repeated what Hobbit said for clarification. Aramithris said the BLBOD would be more thorough since it was more urgent that the Rising Winds corpora be good, and Hobbit said he still preferred Clan.
The Monarchs voted on September or Clan:
The monarchs voted on whether to grant Rising Winds kingdom status.
Aramithris invited the monarchs to attend the BLBOD meeting as observers.
Aramithris asked if the circle was finished with Rising Winds discussion. The consensus was yes.
Aramithris asked the kingdoms for topics of discussion to speed up the meeting.
The Burning Lands requested 6.1 discussion.
The Emerald Hills requested Wetlands discussion.
The Celestial Kingdom and Dragonspine passed.
The Iron Mountains requested discussion of the next monarch's meeting.
The Golden Plains requested Shadowvale discussion.
Neverwinter said they wished to discuss Amtgard government.
Goldenvale said they wished to discuss Olympiad.
Aramithris asked if anyone wished to discuss the Mystic Seas controversy. The consensus was that the Mystic Seas controversy is internal to the Mystic Seas.
Aramithris opened Wetlands discussion. He said the BLBOD view was that contracts and the rule of law were important, and that the Wetlands broke their word. He said they were not willing to make amends and that the BLBOD reluctantly yanked the Wetlands contract after nine months of discussion. He said the BLBOD decision is legal.
Bjorn asked what the Burning Lands populace thought of the decision, and Aramithris said the Althing was unanimous in support of the BLBOD.
Discussion on the Wetlands began by going around the circle for discussion.
Eclipse said that the Wetlands would be agreeable to a request from the Monarch's Circle to give the Monarch of Wetlands a veto power in order to resolve this issue.
Stormie asked if any solutions have been sought. Aramithris said the BLBOD would be willing to see how a request from the Circle would work out.
Diego said the Celestial Kingdom is friends with the Wetlands and that all kingdoms change their Corpora. Aramithris said the BLBOD doesn't mind small corpora changes, and said the Wetlands refused to discuss fixing their corpora. Aramithris said knighthood wasn't the problem the BLBOD had with the Wetlands corpora.
Belgarion said the Wetlands leaders said if the monarchs asked them to changed their Corpora to give their king a veto, they would, and we should see about doing that.
Euric said we should look for a compromise and that the issue was handled wrong by both sides, and that the Golden Plains disagreed with the Wetlands not being a kingdom.
Verana said that both sides handled the issue wrong, but said she spoke to former Wetlands King Crom and he refused to do anything unless his Althing wanted it. Verana said the BLBOD suggested many compromises but Crom refused unless his Althing approved.
Vinall said a monarchial veto was suggested to the Wetlands but they refused. Belgarion interjected that if the Monarchs Circle suggested it, as peer kingdoms, the Wetlands would be more agreeable.
Bjorn said he could promise anything to the Circle but would still need Althing approval, just like the Wetlands. He said that the Wetlands Althing viewed the BLBOD actions as hostile and that's why they reacted they way they did.
Amren said there was a poll on the Goldenvale list asking if Goldenvale supported the Wetlands. He disagreed with whoever started the poll and said an Althing in Goldenvale proper agreed with the BLBOD but disagreed with how the Wetlands crisis was solved.
Bone suggested making the awards structure the same for all kingdoms as a way to fix the problem. Aramithris asked to postpone discussion of the awards structure as it fit under the Amtgard government category.
Aramithris asked if there was a consensus for compromise. The monarchs said yes.
Aramithris asked of a document should be drafted asking the Wetlands to fix their corpora. Verana asked what would happen if the Wetlands rejected the letter. Stormie said the monarchs needed to find a middle ground. Diego said the Wetlands have support from the kingdoms, but those kingdoms and Wetlands are represented by monarchs.
Aramithris said the BLBOD feels put upon and that the monarchs should have stepped in earlier. Aramithris said he suggested earlier to send a letter asking the Wetlands to change but got no support. Belgarion said the Iron Mountains did in fact ask for clarification on the letter but got no reply.
Diego asked if, hypothetically, was there a possibility that the Wetlands could work with the circle but keep their policy on knighthood intact. Aramithris answered no.
Aramithris said the Wetlands was already asked to give their king a veto. Verana said the Wetlands was also offered the compromise of making their Guildmaster of Knights elected by the entire populace.
Randall asked who the Guildmaster of Knights in the Wetlands is, and was told Corbin. Randall asked if he was at the event, because he could assure the Monarchs that he would adhere to any decision on knighthood until an Althing could approve it.
Eclipse said we can get this all cleared up. Bjorn asked what risk there was in the monarchs presenting a compromise.
Feral was given the floor by consensus. He said the Wetlands would support giving their king a veto, and that the ball would be back in their court if the monarchs ask them to do so.
Aramithris said he would take up and support reinstatement of the Wetlands contract with the BLBOD if the Wetlands gives their king a veto. Aramithris said the 2001 Monarch's Meeting said that knighthood should be inviolate.
Aramithris asked for clarification, which was provided by consensus:
The Circle of Monarchs would propose that the Wetlands give their king a veto over knighthood. Bjorn suggested a deadline of six weeks to effect the change.
Aramithris said he would go to the BLBOD if that happens and push for reinstatement of the Wetlands contract.
Bone said that no Corpora said knighthood can't be changed, and we need to put that in the contract.
A vote was taken of the monarchs on whether to put together a letter to the Wetlands.
Aramithris asked King Diego to get onto the AmtgardInc list.
Belgarion inquired if six weeks was a good deadline. Randall asked how long it took the Iron Mountains, a similarly sized kingdom, to handle Allthings. Discussion of the deadline arrived at a September 20th deadline, shortly after the next Wetlands event. Monarch attempted to research the Wetlands corpora at that time to make sure a legal allthing decision could be made in that time frame.
Much informal discussion ensued.
Eclipse volunteered to write the document on behalf of the monarchs.
Verana asked what would happen to Wetlands titles, since they had acted as a kingdom and given titles since the BLBOD terminated their contract. Aramithris said that, as long as the current Wetlands monarch approved all the titles, it didn't matter, so it was a moot point. Verana then asked if the kings wanted the Wetlands at interkingdom court. The kings said they had no intentions of disrupting the Burning Lands event and that it was up to the Burning Lands who would attend the court.
Stormie asked the letter to be read during court, but it was agreed by consensus to merely deliver it to the Wetlands.
Jacobia said the letter should ask the Wetlands to agree to good relations with the other kingdoms. Consensus said that both the letter and the contract already implied this.
Aramithris asked if the current BLBOD members at the meeting would vote yes to reinstate the Wetlands contract. The monarchs said this wasn't necessary at this time and said they trust the BLBOD to act properly when the Wetlands changes their contract.
Belgarion asked the BLBOD to give themselves a deadline to vote on the Wetlands, since the monarchs were giving the Wetlands a deadline. Aramithris said the issue would be voted on at the September BLBOD meeting if the Wetlands fixed their corpora.
The monarchs and the BLBOD would review the letter before it was issues.
The following points were arrived at by consensus of the circle:
1. Eclipse and Bjorn would write the proposal, which would then be approved by the BLBOD.
2. The Wetlands would have eight weeks from receipt of the letter to make changes to their Corpora. This deadline was set as September 20th, 2002.
3. The Wetlands would be asked in the letter to give their king a veto, and would be asked to not take that veto away at anytime during their contract with Amtgard Inc.
4. The BLBOD would agree to consider reinstatement of the Wetlands contract at their September meeting after such changes were made.
The monarchs voted on whether to approve the letter.
Belgarion asked for discussion of the next monarch's meeting. Banner Wars, Harvest War, and other events were suggested, but most monarchs said they would be unable to attend. Aramithris suggested using the AmtgardInc list. Belgarion said Garik told the monarchs that the AmtgardInc list was not a monarch's list. Aramithris said he would clarify the list's purpose with Garik. The consensus was that the list was still valid and useful, and that it could be used to discuss interkingdom issues and to hold monarch's meetings online.
The monarchs agreed to discuss Amtgard government on the AmtgardInc list, and the meeting was adjourned.
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